MTFFL

Yeah but now that your team is pissed you are going to destroy my team. Dammit!!!!

wildest fantasy wrote:Well, I decided to see just how much F’ing was going on around here and let me tell you it was quite a lot this year. Some were pitching, some were catching, some did both, and only a couple abstained. I think Michelle wins for being the most naughty

I think we need a "naughtiest" player award.

Last place trophy?

I seem to be discussing several different issues here and I’d like to try to separate them for clarity, but let me first put John’s mind to rest. I too like this league for being different than the norm so I am not trying to push us toward default ESPN settings. I am willing to discuss any issue up to and including entire format changes, but I prefer to leave it basically the same with minor changes to make what is already the best just a little bit better. You, Will, and Ernie, on the other hand, are unknowingly advocating for entire format changes. I’ll explain that in a bit. I would just encourage you to be aware of why the norm is the norm and why we choose to be different where we do. We should not just be different for different sake cause that’s just juvenile.

I particularly like the IDP, all position player flex, and 7 keeper (almost dynasty) format settings. These are big picture items, or macro-settings, if you will, that separate this league from the norm and make it more complex and interesting. On the other hand, choosing tiebreaker stats, waiver preferences, or tweaking scoring rules are details, or micro-settings, that can be adjusted to our liking and would typically have smaller effects on your strategy or overall enjoyment of the game.

So, in your description of your other league you say the best teams didn’t necessarily make it in. That’s the nature of a h2h divisional format. Our league has the same “problems” and that’s why Ernie and Anthony have advocated for reshuffling the divisions. I am leaning away from that idea but that’s for another thread. When you decide to be h2h divisional you are pitting some teams against each other more often and you are deciding how some, if not all, of the playoff spots are determined. You have to have divisional leaders in regardless of their league-wide relative strength. That sucks when you have a stacked division and a weak division if you are in the stacked one. If you didn’t like that about the other league, then you shouldn’t like it about this league cause its exactly the same. Are you proposing we change to a non-divisional format?

I hope this isn't too abrasive but I've just gotta say this.

When I joined this league, I was literally called after the draft started and asked to take over a team from a previous owner that didn’t show up and pay on draft day. I drove about an hour to get to Jeff’s apartment. You guys actually drafted first pick for this team and then we did it by phone until I got there. I had never been in an IDP league and had no idea who my keepers were. That first pick was Adrian Peterson(thanks guys for being fair). Why did my team get first pick? Cause this team sucked nads and got last place the year before. Nobody handed me a shiny glass mug when I walked in the door. That’s the definition of rebuilding and in an unfamiliar league format no less, but I wasn’t skeered. My successes in this league are my own. Oh yes, I did build that!

Ernie and Will, you guys seem to be making essentially the same argument. You are saying that a good team could have a bad break (maybe on bye weeks) and lose to a weaker team that has a lucky high scoring week. You ask me should that affect the playoffs? Well, in a h2h format, yes. In h2h those “bad breaks” are called “losses” and a loss is a loss. That’s exactly how the h2h format increases parity. Look at the NFL (a h2h league). Remember the Green Bay/Seattle blown call by the replacement refs? Sorry Packers, chalk one up in the “L” column and move on to next week. And the Jets? They were still alive for the wildcard until just last night and they’re terrible.

Guys, I am uniquely connected to this argument. The very first FF league I was in some 10 or 12 years ago was a non-divisional points race league. I loved it. We played weekly matchups, but that was just to stir up smack talk. No playoffs. All that mattered was piling up a bunch of points. When that league decided to go h2h, I squealed and cried. They told me it was more fair; to which I vehemently disagreed. I used then the exact same word-for-word arguments you are making now. The wave of change swept me over and I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of h2h. I have learned to accept it and even embrace it, but I still believe to this day that there is no more objective and definitive measure of overall team strength than a points race format. But, I could not argue that points race increased competition. It is, in fact, much more likely that a handful of good teams will run away with the points and the majority of teams will find themselves hopelessly behind after just 8 or 9 weeks. To tell yourselves otherwise is false hope.

So, this is not my proposal. It is you guys who set up this league as h2h. Surely, a league that prides itself on being different was not just ignorantly following trends when it chose to be h2h. All I’m saying is you are not following your own chosen format for one spot. Either you like h2h or you don’t. In a h2h league, h2h record must be the first stat of seeding. You can use other stats for tiebreakers. To do otherwise is to denounce the very seeding format you chose in the first place.

So, after all that blather, what am (was) I proposing? Three things:
1. I was proposing that we use power rank as tie breakers since it is a better measure of strength in a h2h league because it uses multiple stats over 14 games. However, I have to rethink that position since I realized it’s corrupted by HFA and therefore isn’t much better than the h2h record itself. Unless we can change how its calculated. If we can’t get rid of HFA, I suppose total points is the best tie breaker. Again, tie breaker, not first seeding stat.

2. I am still saying that we should stick to our seeding format (divisional h2h) for all seeding positions. This odd ball seeding rule for 4th spot undermines the purpose of the h2h format and makes no sense. It also seems that we are using this odd seeding rule as a way to wine and dine one player after HF’n him in the A with a bad scoring rule. If we are gonna corrupt our seeding format with the ”HF n the A” rule we oughta at least be men enough to bend over and take it till the end. As I have shown, get rid of this bad scoring rule and we probably won’t need the bad seeding rule.

3. I know this is brought up every year, but it has recently just become a running joke. Seriously guys, we have got to get rid of this HFA rule. It is a truly horrible rule and you guys that want to keep it have no valid argument in favor of it. You just want it cause its different. Hey, if we get rid of it, we will still be different, just less dumb. We are a h2h league and we have a scoring rule that skews h2h records? What kinda sense does that make?

This rule benefits nobody and is only hurting. This is not a rule one can plan around. It is arbitrary and can give a win to a team that didn’t earn it on its own merits. Does that help anyone? Only if you want to lift an average team into the playoffs that doesn’t belong there by points or h2h record. But that’s done at the expense of someone else that earned it and that sounds unfair to me. And based on your arguments you would call it unfair too. It affects seeding which means playoff matchups are affected. Remember, I got in the playoffs by HFA wins and got #1 seed by one of those HFA wins. I don’t even belong in the playoffs on my own h2h merits and I got in at the expense of Ernie and Anthony although Ernie got a reprieve. What about the other end of the ranks? Is a weak team helped by picking up a couple of arbitrary wins? No way, they would drop in draft order making it even harder to rebuild. That is uniquely tough in a 7 keeper league.

Here, here. Well written. Let's at leats reduce HFA to a field goal if not obliterate it all together...

I can appreciate your passion for your arguments about the league and all of your stat searching research. But its pointless. This season is not a normal season. Players have played good and bad and have been up and down. I was in another league that I started out 0-6 in. I finished at 7-6 and made it to the semi-final game in that league. My team seemed really bad but it really wasnt. I should have been in the Championship game, but for a couple of fluke stats such as Janikowski being worth 25 to my opponent and Tynes being a -2 for me, I failed to make it. Thats a 27 point swing!!

This season is not the norm. With all the research you have done, you failed to do one thing, and that was to go back and look at past seasons in this league. I went back the past 5 seasons, 2007-2011 and the teams with the best records did get in. Even the team in the wild card spot. Now I didnt compare the teams if there were two that had the same record, with one getting the wild card and one that didnt. Im at work so I dont have the real time to dedicate to true research. Maybe it could have been different. Who knows and frankly who cares??

I mean are you just upset that Ernie beat you and you feel he shouldnt have been in the playoffs based on his record? If anyone were going to complain, I would think it would be Brian or Shane who did have better records and didnt get in but I have yet to see them whine,complain, or call the system that we play under stupid or unreasonable. We all knew the rules when we joined, and if you didnt, then thats on you.

Ernie has a good team every year and there is a great possibility that he kicks my ass Sunday. If that happens, there will be no asteriks so to speak next to his win. He will have won fair and square and if that happens, I will simply congratulate him. I will not make arguments as to why he shouldnt be in at all.

I have always been against HFA and voted against it. We actually got it reduced to 3 points in the second league which is more reasonable. Everything is always up for a vote at the draft, but we didnt discuss any issues before we started drafting this year. It would seem that we should put it up for a vote again this year. We are close to getting the numbers we need. I know that you and I as well as Jonathon, Brian, Shane, and Anthony are all in favor of no HFA or at least reduced HFA. Thats 6....we need what, 2 more to make a change? It could happen.

Looks like HFA is going to be gone next season. I guess for me the mimicking of the perception of home field advantage in the NFL is what brought on HFA and that is why I liked it. It was just an attempt to simulate "real" football as best we could. But if you break down fantasy sports there are plenty other things that just aren't in line with "real" football and will never be but I thought this was one attempt that could work. But obviously not very popular.

Eric, I like a lot of you points and I think we can really have a true discussion in the future on adjusting how seeding is done. Good luck this week. (Can you bench Peterson and maybe replace him with Finley?)...